" I genuinely did believe that I was at a legitimate site and thus prayed earnestly. Thanks. If the place is truly Catholic then the truth will out, as it has for every genuine apparition in Church history. Those at Holy Love Ministries have openly rejected it. The Bishop has spoken after an investigation of Holy Love, as requested by Pope Benedict XVI. As the webmaster of 5 different Catholic websitesone being the Mystics of the Church website I have spent *many* years studying the lives of the mystics/saints/visionaries in the Catholic church, so I believe I can speak to this issue with at least some background and experience in what the Church teaches concerning obedience to the legitimate Church authority. Guard me against all evil. Imitate this resignation by accepting trials.". And, thank you, denis. 3221, you are right. But Holy Love's response urging the faithful to disregard their bishop's counsel is quite telling. It attributes whole malice to persons, effectively demonizing them. Get it? At Holy Love, just being outside Church authority is warning enough for me. He cites canons 212 and 214. Therese of Lisieux ((Doctor of the Church) told her novices Pick up a pin and save a soul. This is the case when a man takes little trouble to find out what is true and good, or when conscience is by degrees almost blinded through the habit of committing sin. In such cases, the person is culpable for the evil he commits [CCC 1791]Ignorance of Christ and his Gospel, bad example given by othersassertion of a mistaken notion of autonomy of conscience, rejection of the Churchs authority and her teachingthese can be at the source of errors of judgment in moral conduct [CCC 1792]Conscience can remain in ignorance or make erroneous judgments. I feel this person is a prime example of almost a brainwashing of sorts. Bishop Lennon issued an admonishment because he could not forbid Catholics from going to HLM. Read the sections about primacy of the Faith and when disobedience to bishops is called for. Lennon then cites the desire of the Holy See for Lennon to act definitively on this matter. You must digest them for any positive effect. You may have the trappings of it, but the Church is where the true Faith is taught, preserved, and nurtured in God and for God in order to lead us to God.. You keep following your canon law rule book, and you will still be studying it when the Church is underground and Mass is no longer available, nor the Holy Eucharist worshiped and LOVED in the institutional Church. In the Mystical Theology of St. John of the Cross (Doctor of Mystical Theology of the Catholic Church) he explains that in mystical union with God, the soul becomes God and God becomes the soul. Oh, so you are not going to respond to the explanations I made regarding your accusations of heresy? How could false messages result in so many good fruits, such as to increase prayers and devotion to God, Mary and the saints? Now the Vatican is discerning Medjugorie and no one has accused (or admonished) those who go there, nor told them to cease and desist. (Someone above has a way you can bring the document up on the internet.Scroll up and find it.)) Yes, saints obeyed their superiors by accepting punishment (whippings, imprisonment, etc) for the fact that they would NOT stop publicizing the Truth. If he could, I am sure he would. As Catholics, we are to follow what they ask of us. I do not speak for the sake of speaking but to instruct and guide., If you choose not to listen, the future does not bode well for your country or for you yourselves. I take my hat off to you! You just looked up how obedience is defined in the CCC. I was put off regarding mention of Marys hair as well. You are too funny 3221! Please join us there, if you havent already. Your argument, 3221, only proves the ecumenical ministry claim is a ploy to get out from under the legitimate authority of the local Ordinary and the Holy See. If we cannot rely on ancient doctrines to discern what is true or false in apparitions, (and we cannot) then we have to discern the best we can in other ways. "Rosary of the Unborn": Heaven Sent or Hoax? - Pro-Life Action League I just find it so sad that this place is set up right beside a genuine Apparition Site here In Ireland. and not only were the decree and letter published in English, they were also published in Spanish and Korean undoubtedly to insure that language was not a barrier to getting the information: http://www.dioceseofcleveland.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=343:decree-holy-love-ministries-decreto-ministerios-del-santo-amor-&catid=67. Very interesting; Id like to visit it someday since its relatively close to me. (4) I will obey bishops or priests even when they disobey God by forsaking the, (5) Whoever protests against anything a Church prelate does or says is disloyal. The fact that Bishop Lennon wont provide me or others any concrete evidence of why he has made this decision makes me very skeptical of his decision. Thats not the topic of this thread. The bigger the basket - the more fruit fits in it.". He is a very sick man. In all the various approved apparitions throughout the centuries, does the Blessed Mother or Jesus talk of worldly events, the economy, politicians and the U.S. economy? So, instead, the devil uses a Catholic facade to lure them in. ( I keep asking the following question but I never get an answer from the scoffers who write here: If your bishop tells you that the Holy Eucharist is only God during Mass, so disregard the Sacred Species otherwise, will you do so so that you can feel truly obedient?) Obedience does not mean following the erroneous directives of bishops. Yes, all are encouraged to pray it and I know an Episcopalian minister who used to pray it, to her credit; but, it is a Catholic prayer. Heaven calls you here.. First of all, Jesus DOES DEPEND on us to help Him save the world. It can lead to a crisis in faith instead of the reverse. Catherine of Sienna told them all on 11/18/09 (after Bishop Lennons Decree): Do not be fooled to believe you are not allowed to come., 3221 believes that Jesus Himself said on 11/13/09 (after Bishop Lennons Decree): My brothers and sisters, you must not place OFFICE and AUTHORITY and TITLE above the TRUTH., 3221 believes that St. I am proving, however, that we shouldnever say never. It can get the faithful off track. I received a booklet with them and that is when i saw these so called messages. Fruits is more relative to the interior life of virtue, as St. Teresa of Avila teaches in her The Interior Castle (Sixth Mansion). Thanks Kevin. concrete evidence of why he has made this decision makes me very skeptical of his decision. We have two generations of ill-formed Catholicsdue to bishops who have failed Christ badlywho do not know the most fundamental teachings of their Faith,nor do they understand that the virtue of obedience is an obedience to defending the Faith, not the false obedience of unthinking compliance with bishops, especially when those bishops do not have the moral integrity which underpins any true discernment. My point in bringing this up is that the corruption within the body of bishops is at an all time high. Neither am I drawn to apparition sites perseeven if I sense that they are authentic.Apparitionseven if genuinedo not fortify the Faith that God has given to me. 2021 Holy Love Messages The Holy Love messages are promoting nothing but good, which makes everything against it evil. Medjugorie is related to HLM because both are unapproved apparition sites. Another person said that her fallen-away Catholic friend that once ridiculed the site became a believer. 3221 You are absolutely wrong. Satans work! Your discernment needs to focus on what your bishop is doingor more to the pointnot doing. "No. Bishops have allowed these spiritual perversions and they will answer to God for it. Nobody claims to be gods here. He too admonished people to stay away from it. I do not know what I said Harry. pps. Why?. You do not know what God would do. To think that messages are being sent by Him or the Blessed Mother, inspires them with the notion that they can get even closer by taking the messages to heart, visiting the shrines and getting near the visionaries. These are my answers to your points about which you claim that HLM is in error. Well, Ive gopt a question: Regarding the bishops we are supposed to obey: how many of them have concealed pedophile priests? the bmv took me to the divine mercy devotion thanks to my wife and her dear mother and father-in law. Disobedience to Church authority is one of the premier hallmarks of a false vision or apparition (there are others such as self-promotion, pride and profitting). JESUS CHRIST who has given authority to his Church, not to some nameless and faceless commentator on an Internet web site. This explicitly negative judgment is a definitive God is not the source of this claim.. The Church has spoken on Holy Love Ministries. Using your logic St. Joan was obliged to deny her voices, just as you assume that the faithful are obliged to not visit Holy Love. Its what the evil one does mixing truths and half-truths with false messages. In the first place, Kevin, the state of corruption in the Church makes it almost impossible for the true Faith to be allowed to be spoken. Eventually Rome took his authority away and a special commission was given the task of evaluating Medjugorie. Ive studied and practiced the Holy Love apparitions for 25 years and can assure you they are authentic. I would not get involved with it. Rather, it is sin that keeps a soul from holiness. You have the document that proves condemnation. HLM attackes the Church??? But, it is good to dissect their techniques and arguments. 2) s/he doesnt believe that s/he owes obedience to the Bishop. Please ponder these words of Jesus to St. Margaret Mary Alacoque after she explained to Him that she did not do something that He had asked of her because her Superior forbid it: Therefore not only do I desire that you should do what your Superior commands, but also that you should do nothing of all that I order without their consent. Mike. When I spoke with people from the diocese, I learned that some things reported on the Holy Love website are misrepresented and subtly drive a wedge between followers and the bishop. 2) All Catholics are obliged under Church law to obey the directives of the competent ecclesiastical authority on matters of private revelation. I was joined by 3,500 other pilgrims who had congregated to see if the Virgin Mary would appear as purported locutionist Stephen Marino had reported she would. She tells us that God wants us to focus on growing in self knowledge instead of probing others spiritual state. This means that pious souls who would be repulsed by crude materialistic greed think nothing of being greedy to know revelations and prophecies. When a bishop does not uphold the true Faith, ac cording to Deitrich von Hildebrand, he loses his authority to represent the Church, and instead represents his own novelty. He continues to explain that those Catholic who oppose heretical bishops are the true members of the Church. You see, you just do not get it. We are sorry that the bishop has taken this position. You are all mixed up big time. The Dialogues is St. Catherine of Sienas profound spiritual work and is accepted by the Church as indeed she is a Doctor (teacher) of the Church. Instead of spending money and time on sites of questionable authenticity, I realize now that the best way to act radically for Christ is to receive Him every day at Mass and then to live His gospel message. It takes awhile to digest such a fraud. You will not deal with specifics of HLM nor will you discuss Aquinas view of obedience to Church authority because you want your own arrogant and distorted view to be accepted by all as the truth without any discussion.. No one is asking you to believe in the messages of HLM. I hesitate to call it from the devil only because I think its equally possible, or even probable, that its simple a case of either an emotionally imbalanced woman (Sweeney) or a shrewd woman seeking notoriety and a very comfortable lifestyle. When the Church wants to speak definitely, she does so. We reply: They lost nothing at all. It apparently also makes some Catholics so prideful that theyve decided they know better than the Church, i.e. I have come to ask you some questions to help you to think like citizens of Heaven, not of earth..My brothers and sisters, you must not place OFFICE and AUTHORITY and TITLE above the TRUTH., I, your Eternal Father, call you here. What do you find erroneous? Lennon condemned the claimsCONSTAT DE NON SUPERNATURALITATEwith the backing of the Holy See. spiritual roadmap for union with the divine will of God. What was that you said earlier about leaving ones interior life to themselves and God, 3221? To comply with Bishop Lennons decree is a false obedience, for, in admonishing the lay faithful to cease gathering there, he is preventing the spread and the teaching of the true orthodox Faith as it has been handed down to us. Navigating the Interior Life: Spiritual Direction and the Journey to God, article on Apparitions/Private Revelations, Holy Hacks: Everyday Ways to Live Your Faith & Get to Heaven, Big Hearted: Inspiring Stories from Everyday Families, http://www.mysticsofthechurch.com/2011/12/sister-magdalena-of-cross-nun-who-made.html, http://rcspiritualdirection.com/blog/2012/12/04/csd-book-club-announcing-our-next-book-3/comment-page-1#comment-12621, http://rcspiritualdirection.com/blog/2012/06/10/spiritual-direction-book-club-how-do-i-join-it%29, http://rcspiritualdirection.com/blog/2012/12/04/csd-book-club-announcing-our-next-book-3/comment-page-1#comment-12630, http://www.ewtn.com/Library/NEWAGE/MUGABAY.TXT, http://www.mysticsofthechurch.com/2009/11/obedience-to-catholic-church-judging.html, http://www.thewarningsecondcoming.com/home/, http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__PU.HTM, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Zh-yR0pbmU, Irish Prayers for Strong Families and Spiritual Protection, 20 Ways to a Holy Christmas Through Advent, St. Michael, St. Gabriel, St. Raphael, Archangels, Book Review: Habits for Holiness by Fr.

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